Posts by Frazzled UBM

26

My sons first talk

by lukejmedic in

jw
friends

quick backstory:raised a jw, ms, reg pioneer, international need greater work.

i have been da for 2 years, divorced, ex and my son live 6 hours away near walkill ny.. my sons first talk is coming up, in august.

he is 7 years old.

It is tricky - how to go without being seen to be condoning this exercise in manipulation. Giving a speech and being made to feel good about it is important to the process of indoctrination by linking ego to belief ( he feels good about the religion because he is made to feel good about giving the speech). If you do go, you need to sit him down and explain to him why it was difficult for you to go and that even though you didn't agree with him doing it or with what he was presenting, you went to support him. if you get shunned, make sure to let him understand that happened.

Interestingly, when the shoe is on the other foot even ex-Witnmesses have trouble doing what you propose but in reverse. Even though my wife has stopped going to meetings, when my son joined the choir at school and had to perform at the local Anglican church, my wife would not go to hear him sing. But this last weekend she came with us to La Sagrada Familia in Barcelona (which is a basilica) and so there is no consistency to her behaviour.

64

The poor and deprived life of JW children.

by Esse quam videri in

i find it hard to believe that adults on this forum make such a big deal about not celebrating birthdays, x-mas, easter, halloween, etc, etc, etc.

i grew up as a jw kid and it actually made me feel good, being different from the other kids in school.

we went to meetings.

Frazzled UBM

Isolation can intensify bonding - certainly that is what the WBTS wants and achieves. That sense of specialness (actually superiority) because holidays are not celebrated reinforces the isolation and bonding with others who do the same thing. So it is unsurprising that Esse has fond memories. But the reality is this did damage. My wife who was also brought up as a Witness and is very close to her brothers and sisters for similar reasons but she is incapable of operating socially outside her family.

28

Do You Think Humanity Will Ever Be Completely Free From Religion?

by InjusticeSystem in

i realize that many here still have a form of spirituality or faith, and i mean no disrespect to those individuals.

i suppose i am posting this question to those, like myself, who have come to the conclusion that religion in general is a major hindrance to the progress of our species and needs to be put aside so that we can advance to our full potential.

so my question is, do you think this will ever actually happen, and how do you think we can get there?

Frazzled UBM

In most of the world belief in religion is on the rise and Islam is the fastest growing so there is no grounds for believing that reason will triumph over faith any time soon. Because a lot of people on this site have moved from absolute belief in a particular religious doctrine to rationality and atheism, I think there is a tendency to generalise this experience to the world. Alas this is not supported by the evidence.

12

Family defend pregnant Jehovah's Witness Who Died With Baby

by Bangalore in

'she put the baby first each and every time': family defend pregnant jehovah's witness who died with her baby after refusing blood transfusion, chemotherapy and c-section due to religious beliefs.

read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3034491/she-baby-time-no-matter-happened-family-defend-pregnant-jehovah-s-witness-died-baby-refusing-blood-transfusion-chemotherapy-c-section-religious-beliefs.html#ixzz3ylbjfbvr follow us: @mailonline on twitter | dailymail on facebook.

bangalore.

Frazzled UBM

This is just so sickening and totally avoidable - it makes me so angry - more blood on the hands of the WBTS!

53

questions

by DanielC in

i've been dating a jw girl for about 4 years and we've recently had a lot of issues with the fact that her family doesn't like that i'm not a jw.

i've been looking into the religion and am interested in it.

but is it wrong to join just so i don't lose her?

Frazzled UBM

Stop thinking with the little head. Let me do some crystal ball gazing for you an dlook into yoru future:

You get baptized to improve your relationshiop with your gf's family. Then you marry her and have kids and your kids are brought up as Witnesses and subjected to the indoctrination they use to induce sub-conscious phobias that they can manipulate as your child grows older to keep them in and stop them developing critical thinking skills. Years later you wake up to the full horror and see this manipulative cult for what it is and want out. You get disfellowshipped and your wife shuns you and encourages yoru kids to do the same - she gets help from the organisation to win custody of your kids on the basis you are spiritaully weak and a bad influence. Later your kids also wake up and realise the psychological damage this cult has done to them and resent you for not doing more to get them out.

This scenario is by no means fanciful. I am not suggesting you need to break up with your gf but if you are going to stay with her do it on your own terms and be clear you will not be converting and you will actively oppose your kids being brought up as Witnesses. This will test how liberal a Witness she really is. If she walks away you know you have dodged a bullet because she is telling you the organsiation is more important to her than you. If she stays then you have good prospects of getting her out (though recognise that it wil be a long hard bitter struggle to break the spell of indoctrination but it will be her seeing your genuine love for her that will win out in the end).

I think it is ironic that so many people on this site will tell you to end the relatinship point blank because they don't give Witnesses any credit for being able to get out when they themselves have done so. My wife was brought up in the cult and baptized and very much under the yolk but over time I have gotten her to the point where she has not gone to a meeting for 18 months and didn't even go tot the memorial this year. .

118

"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth . ."

by nicolaou in

so where did god exist before he created the heavens?

Frazzled UBM

When my wife was in full indoctrination mode I asked her the following:

"Jehovah created man correct? Then who created Jehovah?"

She was flumoxed by this question as it had clearly never occurred to her. So I said: "I will give you a clue, they also created Allah, the Hindu Gods, the Ancient Egyptian Gods etc." She continued to look perplexed but also now a bit suspicious. "Do you give up?" I asked. "Mankind!" I answered at which point she looked at me darkly and walked off.

6

Anyone picked up that muslim fanatic convicted in UK for planning another attack on a soldier was brought up JW?

by Frazzled UBM in

i didn't find this particularly surprising given jw indoctrination is all about how evil the non-believers are (and how deserving they are to be destroyed during the big a) and how the wbts is absolutely right and everyone else is absolutely wrong - so it is not a big jump to islamic fanaticism.

Frazzled UBM

I didn't find this particularly surprising given JW indoctrination is all about how evil the non-believers are (and how deserving they are to be destroyed during the big A) and how the WBTS is absolutely right and everyone else is absolutely wrong - so it is not a big jump to Islamic fanaticism.

4

South American "Mayan" mob justice. Have you heard of it??

by DATA-DOG in

i have a close friend who has jw family in south america.

recently some criminals ran through their town.

the locals routinely practice "mayan justice" where the criminals are beaten or burned to death, depending on the crime.. the authorities try to stop it, but they are not always successful.

Frazzled UBM

I thought the mayans were from Central not South America (Mexico, Guatelmala, Honduras etc.)

42

Ongoing frustration with wife

by Flipping El in

i've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.

i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.

i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!

Frazzled UBM

Hi Erbie - please start a thread to tell us your story. It sounds like you have been through a tough time.

42

Ongoing frustration with wife

by Flipping El in

i've tried taking the slow, patient approach with my wife.

i believe i first posted here about 13 months ago about my wife.. we've always had good communication and could talk endlessly about philosophy, neuroscience, sociology and then when i learned the ttatt, i clammed up a bit about spiritual things.

i'd always been fairly liberal, suggesting other alternative ideas, but then i told my wife about the un/ngo scandal (i ran across the guardian story doing a talk as an ms, lol!

Frazzled UBM

This sounds pretty tough Fliping El. Have you read Captives of a Concept? That explains the layers of defence against reality Witnesses build up - essentially there are two: the self-imposed; and the WBTS-imposed; and both are very hard to break through. I think finding a way to address the 'where can we go?' question may be a good start. Get her to understand that there are options and life beyond the organisation. The other thing to do is concentrate on the constant feelings of inadequacy that Witnesses have. She probably feels you are the cause of those feelings for her - your lack of 'spirituality' according to her definition is making her feel bad about herself. The trick is to get her to understand that it is the organisation that is making her feel inadequate because nothing she does will ever be enough. Get her to understand that that is the way they want her to feel because that is the way they motivate Witnesses to work harder in the Minsitry. Also when you observe bad behaviour at the KH - particularly directed at her and you, talk to her about it so she can start to see that the community is not the paradise of 'Christian Love' they make themselves out to be - that they are in fact a bunch of petty-minded judgemental hypocrites. If you have any worldly acquaintances - expose her to them so she can see they are not the corrupt evil greedy people that the organisation portrays them as. It is through her experiences you can best trigger thought-changing cognitive dissonance. Abstract debates about doctrine are less effective. Good luck, Fraz